Today continues the path towards the 100th episode of NXT, where Johnny Curtis is all set to marry Mazine. With the ceremony being only a week away, what is going through the mind of her ex Derrick Bateman?It's clear where Darren Young's head is: winning the competition and becoming WWE's next breakout star. The two of them, along with Titus O'Neil, continue to go towards that goal in Week 45. Who will get closer to that brass ring, and who else will show up tonight? Read on for my thoughts on the show as it happens.
Oh my God! They did it! They finally changed the intro package! Maybe WWE likes me after all. I can get behind it.
Thank the international distributors for keeping the show on the air.
I was half expecting Naomi or Aksana.
Umm... foxes don't purr.
God, that was brutal. Maxine's miles ahead of her ex-Pro on the mic.
Can Maxine and Alicia trade roster spots?
Striker and Regal are both color commentators. This might be overkill.
Nice moves by Maxine. She might could teach Alicia a thing or two.
Good little ending. It'd be a little hard to tell which one of these women was the Pro given their performances tonight.
Barreta looks more angry in that photo than Reks does. How does that work? NXT's preview pictures have been odd in general.
I remember when the Rumble had themes and storylines heading into it instead of just being "this year's Rumble match". That's something that really needs to be addressed. Other than the anniversary, it might as well just be another Rumble match. Come on, marketing team. You can do better than this.
Trentylocks certainly gets points for being the most unique Twitter name in WWE.
That's a good point about the controller.
Awesome baseball slide.
Barreta should be someone to watch. He's got a unique look and confidence about himself, and his arsenal is one of a kind in the company.
I honestly don't think I've ever seen a dive from the corner of the ring (rather than the middle).
I seem to remember Regal advocating using multiple pin covers to wear the opponent down by forcing them to kick out.
Yeah, I don't see as much in Reks as Regal does. With that look, I expect a more brutal, powerful competitor like Darren Young. I want him to be more evil in the ring.
Good enough match. I liked the ending.
Why didn't Yoshi come out to the ring to start off with (other than WWE wanted him to make the delayed save after an attack).
I like both men's looks here. They don't look like manufactured characters. Gabriel gives off the rock star vibe at times and I'd like to see more of that.
And the weird soap opera continues.
I get the feeling that's a set up for someone outlasting Rey this year. I could be way wrong.
It doesn't get much more "odd couple" than Kidd and JTG.
Good suplex from Uso. I like their doubleteams.
Wow. Don't think I've seen that from JTG before.
I wish we had more Tyson Kidds in wrestling today. A true in-ring technician.
Kidd reminds me of RVD with his "educated feet" (well-utilized kicks).
Good ending.
I must be getting older, because I think that Rumble song is terrible and generic.
I'm sure we'll see more from the Ryder/Eve story on Z! True Long Island Story.
Maxine and Aksana on the same page? Feels kind of weird after Season 3.
Good lines by Maxine. Maybe she can start competing with Aksana to try to take Teddy Long's position? At the very least, she should be a manager to someone getting screen time on the "main roster". But, once again, the roster feels so crowded that she's kind of stuck here for now.
1994. God, that feels like forever ago. The product looks completely different from what we see today, and it's not just the ring ropes and video quality.
Nice camera angle for Riley's entrance.
It took Miz a number of years to go from Smackdown host to WrestleMania main eventer.
I like the new gear from Curtis. He definitely stands out.
Regal and Striker make an interesting duo on commentary.
Curtis and Maxine make an entertaining couple. They work together well.
Curtis' career skyrocketed? Hahaha, no. He barely leaves NXT.
That spot ALWAYS ends in a kick to the shoulder. Why do people still try to use it?
Good finisher. Curtis has grown a good deal from Season 4 it seems.
I look forward to next week's crazy shenanigans in Vegas. No telling what they'll cook up then.
It's got to end sometime I guess. But where will everyone go from here? Surely it can't be over just because they're married?
I like the face-off graphic there.
How did no one pick up on the "T.O." reference until now?
I hope Snooki and Michael Cole aren't on that PPV DVD.
I hope Bryan goes ballistic on Show with the no DQ stip. I'll throw my computer if Show kills Bryan's title reign.
I like that Regal appreciates the villainy of Young. He was "born naughty" after all.
It's too soon to say Young's going to the top of the company.
Good points and statements by Young.
If the show goes longer than 52 weeks, are the competitors still rookies?
That was a good set up by Titus.
That was the best Titus has sounded on the mic in a long time.
He's... won them all? That's news to me.
Yeah, Young's promo kind of fell apart after the catchphrases.
These two are getting better with their chemistry after some so-so confrontations on the mic.
I hope they're really wrapping this angle up next week. A big no DQ showdown will be good for both of them. Either man could break out with a good performance. Unless they go to some kind of loser leaves NXT match or something next, there's not much ground left to cover.
On to rankings. 5 is mostly lacking flaws, 4 is some general polish and experience away from being ready to be considered part of the main roster, 3 is at the midway point of success and failure, 2 is sufficiently lacking in almost every category, and 1 should be cut from the show and/or released.
Derrick Bateman- 5 (Last week: 5). Bateman's not perfect, and I think a really good performance in the ring is in order for him to maintain such high praise, but I like what I'm seeing from him. He's not the most serious character, but I think that works in his favor as his look and personality stand out from the pack. He's got something marketable both inside and out of the ring, and if I could only pick one Rookie to go from this show to one of the others, he'd be my pick as an entertaining performer whose story I want to see more of (Grade: A).
Titus O'Neil- 4 (Last time: 4). It's neck and neck between O'Neil and Young at this point. O'Neil has been built to look powerful and is getting a good deal better and more natural sounding on the mic. If he can show that he's really got a hang of things in the ring next week, he'll really have gone up in my eyes. I don't picture him being a breakout star, but he could end up being a good addition to the roster as a babyface. (Grade: B).
Darren Young- 4 (Last week: 4). Darren Young continues to be Darren Young. His promo opening the segment with Titus was pretty good, and had it continued on in that direction he'd almost certainly be ahead of Titus right now. But, once it got to the back and forth, he reminded me of why I much prefer him in the ring. He was basically there to set up Titus beating him up, and it showed in the promo. Titus having some time off (and therefore sounding fresher in addition to not having any matches to evaluate) could have been the deciding factor here, as Young's ring work has been pretty impressive lately. Young's giving me more reasons to get behind him, and if he stays on this path (i.e. doesn't blow it on the mic and gets to wrestle more), I think it's only a matter of time before he passes Titus and shows why he could end up being a good part of the roster. (Grade: B).
If I had to eliminate someone, it would be: Titus O'Neil. I think it'd be unfair to cut someone who hasn't been on the show for 2 weeks and only got to cut a promo this week, but if push came to shove I think Young has more potential given the difference in age and experience. Bateman vs. Young for all the marbles would be what I'd shoot for. If there's only so much screen time (and there is), I don't think I could justify using someone with such a limited arsenal. Next week's going to be huge for his chances of earning my endorsement.
That's all for NXT. I'll be back for Superstars and Impact Wrestling tomorrow, and a news post will be up later today. Thanks for reading!
Informative insights this week. One thing is that I don’t necessarily think Darren’s promo fell apart near the end, though. He showed his aggression throughout the whole promo. It wasn’t perfect, and I agree he was kind of set up to get up-ended by Titus. However, there are guys on the main roster that have done way worse. I expected you to actually bump Darren to a “5” after this week, so I am a bit surprised you still have him at a “4”. You said you had him at a “B+” area last week, so I’m very surprised this week didn’t do anything, considering your main flaw was his redundant promos, which he improved on. I agree he has some minor flaws Young needs to work on, though.
ReplyDeleteI objectively think Young is fairly far ahead of Titus, and it shows for the most part. I don’t think there’s a whole-grade difference between Bateman and Young, though. I like Bateman, but I think he has a lot to prove next week. I think that was a very good segment for both Young and Titus (though part of Titus’ promo was hard to understand). Titus showed aggression, but I think Regal was right in that he was holding back a little bit. I know if Young was being verbally bashed like that, he would have gotten intense beforehand. I think with the things Young was saying, even someone who was insanely mild-mannered would get aggressive more quickly. Either way, I think that is the nail in the coffin in terms of showing me that Young can make it in this company. Very good for Young and pretty good for Titus. It will be interesting to see what amount next week.
Something I have seen, and we talked about this before, is that typically when one gets the upper-hand one week, the next week the other guy gets the upper hand. Titus kind of was showcased as the “winner” of that brawl, so it will be interesting to see how things play out next week. The “No DQ” concept will be interesting, and it could bring someone else out into the outcome of the match (possibly Percy to get revenge).
What is good is that both are getting good build-up time and chances. I can make arguments as to who has been built up and how each competitor (Titus getting the upper-hand this week and how Darren has been getting added air time and chances) has a chance to be booked to win next week. But you’re right in that it doesn’t always matter about the match outcome. Who do you think will win this match next week judging from the circumstances and being a guy who has noticed the patterns and adjudication of match decisions in rivalries?
He started off strong (and I didn't mind the repetition of catch phrases), then he had to play off of Titus and I don't think it went as well. Not sure if he rehearsed the opening part verbatim then kind of improvised that part or not. The remark about winning all of his matches with Titus was head-scratching. Not that I think I could do better or anything, but making an error like that in a major storyline would be a big flub. Public speaking and improvisation aren't easy to master, but I think they're important enough to critique.
DeleteAnd there have been people on the main roster who have done worse, unfortunately. I think that's more of an indictment on them than a plus for Young, though. It definitely wasn't as bad as the "Genesis of McGillicutty" promo from Season 2 for instance. Which reminds me, if they get back to the competition aspect, I'd like them to do another round of the challenge where they give them an unrelated subject to talk about that they don't know about beforehand. It seems really stupid, but it's actually pretty clever to see how well they can think on their feet with that much pressure on.
Anyway, the letter difference does seem a little much. That's why I try to avoid specific grades and analyzing too closely; instead giving a more general feeling on the matter. Bateman is in kind of a weird place right now as he was kind of turned into a good guy by default because of being against Curtis and Maxine (instead of "seeing the light" and aligning with someone like Kaitlyn to directly show what side he's on). It's going to be very important for his character to be consistently one way or another once this story arc is over. And, of course, having solid performances in the ring.
I think the gist of the Titus/Young segment was that Titus doesn't want to "sink down to Young's level" and be a violent person, but he was forced to. That could have been something he was directed to do instead of just jumping into a fight (because theoretically everyone would just be fighting all the time).
I definitely think Young's on his way to belonging on the main roster, as he pretty much just needs an opportunity to wrestle and show what he can do. Titus generally needs things built more directly around him, like Mason Ryan just delivering power moves in quick matches. Titus will need to dig deeper for longer matches, which is why I often suggest pairing him with Percy and mostly having him in tag matches.
If there weren't already seemingly too many people and too few spots, I might suggest having one of the people working dark matches and live events teaming up with Young to oppose Titus and Percy. But that would mean the feud would continue, and this is a perfect time to end it before it gets too long in the tooth.
I think Titus will win after getting aggressive enough to finally put Young away. I think if Young won or it was kind of even (one wins, but the other has the last laugh or someone interferes or Young controls most of the match, but Titus comes back to win), it would leave unfinished business, which would necessitate another match.
Or, we could be in for a surprise (this is NXT after all) with someone returning/debuting to help Young or even Percy turning on Titus after agreeing with Darren's assessment. They could being up their past as a tag team in FCW. I don't think that will happen, though. Percy seems too natural as a good guy. It all depends on their larger goals with talent they want to use and if they want the feud to continue (or "need" to because there's no end to the show in sight).
All fair points. Looking at it from an objective standpoint, I think Bateman and Titus have a lot to prove next week. I'd want to see both show an aggressive side, and your point about a long match with Titus makes sense. I think those two have more to prove next week, with Young already proving himself in the ring.
ReplyDeleteI do agree that Young probably rehearses (impressive that he comes up with his own material, though) his opening promo and probably has to improvise when it's back and forth. Though it's hard to come up with material on the spot, I agree he could do a little better at that. There are guys on the main roster like Cena and Jericho that can think of things quickly. I for sure agree about the "random topic" challenges NXT does. It may seem mundane, but it does test how you can think on the spot, which is something you'll have to encounter on the main roster. That is Young's main flaw with promos.
Next week for sure will be an interesting one. The "No DQ" type of match is interesting. I don't think it will be more about "use any weapon or tactic you can" as much as a probably interference. I think if there is interference, it could be to Young's advantage, being a bad guy. You could also make the argument that with Titus getting the upper-hand this week that he may come up on the losing end this week. The reason I say that is soooo many times WWE makes someone who gets the last laugh one week get up-ended the next.
You very well could be right about it looking like a win for Titus, but I think that may seem a little obvious. And like you illuded to, NXT throws curveballs, and there's not much story to a good guy getting the last laugh to end the feud. I think if Titus is booked to win, it kind of would seem that way. What do you think?
Sorry I've been later with comments this week. School has started back, so I'm not going to be as quick to reply.
ReplyDeleteI'm not 100% what you mean about objective standpoints, since what makes a good wrestler can oftentimes be very subjective. There's a very big difference between say, Santino Marella and Sheamus, but I think both are good in different ways. Santino's obviously not an incredibly technical performer, but he does what he does well.
He could be overthinking things. I know Roddy Piper recently said something along the lines of wrestling (and promos) coming from the heart moreso than the mind.
I do like that he's coming up with his own material, and has signature phrases and the like, as that shows effort and can work well with promos. It could be argued that Titus doesn't have much of a unique persona, and Bateman's is hard to directly define. I thought Michael Tarver and Byron Saxton did pretty well with that in previous seasons with their unique T-shirts and such, but obviously neither got very far (Tarver got injured, and I guess they didn't think Saxton was a good enough wrestler yet).
Percy Watson interfering on Titus' behalf is possible and maybe even likely, so not all interference would be helpful to Young.
I look at it as them having the opportunity to close this chapter of both competitors' stories and moving them on to new feuds and new storylines. There needs to be a definitive end if they're going to go elsewhere with them, or at least something that gets our minds off of their feud (someone interfering settling the match to kick off a feud with one or the other). If they want to have Titus win, he can declare it over the next week and someone can interrupt to start a new feud. Darren can find someone else's life to ruin, etc.
We will see what will happen next week. I think you could make the argument that with Young competing on Superstars lately and with Titus getting the upper-hand this week, Young could be booked to win. Then again, Young has taken Titus out a couple of times, and with him returning, they could book him to win. But you're right; each need to improve on weaknesses and being booked to lose a match may show more than someone who is booked to win.
ReplyDeleteMy question in regard to that is that do you really think that some aspects of his promos are enough to bring him down to a "B"? I know with him being good in the ring, soan aspect of his promos is your main flaw with him. I know you gave Bateman an "A", and I like Bateman for the most part, but he isn't as good in the ring, and his promos aren't too much better, if not at all.
Hypothetically, if all of the WWE talent was on NXT, would there be any current "pros" that you would consider below a "5" on your scale? I would assume there would be a decent amount that lack all of the skills.
By the way, what are your thoughts on the "Funkosaurus"? I am torn between that and Jericho's return as the oddest and most unpredictable happenstance. I didn't get to see the first half of the show, but saw it on YouTube and had to watch Brodus' segment twice to understand it and actually try to comprehend it. He was booked to be a big powerhouse and hyped by Laurinitus as one, but yet he comes out to some dancing goofball? Score of 10 on the "curveball" scale.
In relation to Bateman and Young not necessarily having too much of a gap between them in terms of air time and focus anymore that is.
ReplyDeleteIt's all a matter of where they want to go with things and the characters, which could easily change between now and then. I don't know how many people are involved with putting NXT together, but things can get complicated. This shouldn't be a surprise given the show lately, but sometimes scripts/runsheets for Raw aren't finalized until an hour or so before they go on air!
ReplyDeleteNXT's lower on the totem pole and has less performers/characters, but I think there's probably still some hoops to jump through. Someone higher up might like Titus O'Neil and want him to be built up as more credible, so Darren takes a backseat and the like, whereas if it was up to someone else maybe the amount of focus they get would be reversed. Unlike most other TV shows, things are written a lot more week to week instead of long multiple-episode arcs.
A lot of it is that Young is outside of the ring moreso than inside of it, so I'm exposed to more talking than wrestling from him. And with him not being as much of a focal point as others on the show, he doesn't get to show everything that he can do. I can only really judge him by what he does each week. If he talks 75% of the time I see him on-screen, that's what grading is going to reflect. His promos aren't really bad; I just don't think they're A-worthy. If every appearance he had was him taking care of business in the ring, things would skew towards that and he'd probably be at a 5.
Remember that I kind of see people as auditioning for different roles (or "taking different tests" for the grade metaphor). If Bateman was being used as an intense bad guy, he wouldn't be at a 5 because he's not doing that role well. His character's less serious and more laid back, and his ring work isn't designed to brutally take his opponent out because that's not what his character does. At that role (which doesn't require the same killer instinct that Young's does), he's doing well I think.
Young's role's harder to be a 5 in, especially when I've seen the likes of Finlay, Benoit, and to some degree Kidd do them pretty well. They're mostly soft-spoken, and when they did speak they sounded like serious threats (less so Kidd). Young's voice just doesn't fit as well with it. I'd like (if it would work for him, since characters with such little TV exposure almost need to talk for the audience to get into what they're doing) for him to let his ring work do more of the talking.
It still seems like Bateman's getting more screen time than Young, but that's likely because we generally see him more than once through the course of the show.
I think it'd be somewhat unfair to grade people we don't see as much of in the ring, but I'll give it a shot: Alicia Fox, MAYBE Curt Hawkins, Heath Slater (who has a very similar problem to Young. His voice doesn't say "One Man Rock Band" to me, Southern or otherwise), I'd say Justin Gabriel but they wisely keep his talking somewhat limited and when he does talk he does well enough, Kaitlyn's kind of the middle of 4 and 5, Mason Ryan and Michael McGillicutty are especially questionable, Rosa Mendes as a wrestler, Santino's in a small role so he's fine, probably Tyler Reks, and maybe Yoshi Tatsu. It'd be unrealistic to expect a roster full of 5s. Anything 4 or above is fine for semi-regular appearances on the roster. 3s should be used sparingly or in selective roles, and 2s and 1s should really be avoided.
It was interesting doing posts on Monday, because during Raw I thought the use of Brodus Clay was pretty stupid given the factors you mentioned and his previous work, but when I did the news post I thought more of it. I watched it twice as well! Now I'm taking a "wait and see" approach. My guess is that they didn't want him to run roughshod all over the roster yet (as we already have Cena, Kane, Henry and Show as really strong characters), and wanted to use him as a good guy. I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt. He stands out a lot and I think his character can catch on. In time (once/if it runs its course), they can turn him into the monster he can be. He's got a lot of tools to be successful and hopefully in time he'll be able to work longer matches better. If he can continue to get experience and get the crowd behind him, the future could be bright. He's only 31, so it's ok that he's not pushed strong right out of the gate.
ReplyDeleteYeah, those are virtually every "pro" I had in mind that I don't think are quite ready for the main rosters. People say guys like Gabriel and underrated, but I really don't see Gabriel going anywhere in this company with absymal mic skills. Just like Otunga said in Season 1 of NXT: Gabriel is like a deer in the headlights when you put a microphone in his hand. Same with Tatsu. A lot of those other guys you mentioned are fine in the ring, but I agree that they need character and charisma tuning to be able to stand out with all of these up-and-coming FCW guys coming in like you mentioned.
ReplyDeleteAnd also great points about Young's evaluation. I think he is trying to "audition" for a tougher role than Titus, as Titus is purely a good guy with a limited arsenal. I think since there have been so many successful heels, his critiquing definitely takes on a tougher task. Fair point in relation to evaluating him more of what is shown. He has gotten a lot of mic time lately, and even though I think he's done well on it, I can see how some of his minor flaws could overlap the limited amount of matches he's had. Fair point. I think if he had more matches like he's had (like against Baretta) I think it would be very hard to push him down from the "5" range. Do you think currently with his mic ability, it would be enough to slide by if he was on the roster, hypothetically? I know some of these guys, like Orton, aren't golden on the mic themselves.
It's really hard to rate people on the main roster, since they all have different spots and roles and sometimes it's kind of hard to tell what specifically their roles are if they're not in regular feuds. I could probably give different answers different days since there's really a gray area, but I'd say Alicia, Slater, Ryan, Mendes as a wrestler and McGillicutty would be pretty consistently on my "wouldn't miss them much if they were released/should probably still be in FCW" list. Slater's growing on me... kind of. It's all in how they're used.
ReplyDeleteI think Gabriel could at least be pretty marketable, which is really important to WWE. The Cape Town Werewolf name, the somewhat Adam Lambert-esque look, and the unique offense and background all make him stand out. I imagine a lot of his troubles on the mic has to do with his accent. Or maybe English isn't his first language. He's wrestled in front of enough audiences to get over stage fright, so I think it's something he's just not good at. Tatsu also has the language barrier, and I don't see that going away. And the regular Japanese audience is sometimes vastly different from WWE's. He's so-so and I don't see him ascending as much as Gabriel (hypothetically), since Gabriel's still "got time to grow" at 30.
If Young was used as just a tough, intense heel who just showed up/interfered and let his impressive offense do most of the talking, he could do pretty well in WWE. It takes time to go up the ranks generally speaking, but he should at least be in the midcard mix if used right. There's kind of a Purgatory of people who are there but not being pushed (because there's only so much space), and if they clear that up a bit by maybe releasing a couple of people (never an easy or "wanted" decision)and using the veterans more wisely (also very difficult at times) he and Bateman could probably slide in nicely if WWE knew what do with them and they got to use what makes them stand out.
As for Orton; having seen his entire WWE career, he's an accepted part of the show to me now. He's had so many promos and matches in that time that my views on him are pretty set. While I don't think he's one of the all time greats on the mic, I do like his promos. He's supposed to be fairly emotionless and restrained on the mic as a really cold character. He's over enough with the crowd and credible enough that he doesn't need to cut the really impassioned "notice me" promos that others lower on the card do. He's got a pretty guaranteed spot. The more calculated promos stand out from everyone yelling and raising their voices.
Valid points. I definitely think, not to be rude, but Alicia Fox and some of these other guys like Mason Ryan are very overrated. Ryan gets a little too much credit due to his size, and I think Fox has been overrated since the beginning. I'm not sure why she's gotten a push over some of these other divas. She has botched a fair amount of moves, and I've seen next to no charisma from her at all acculminating in mediocre promos when she gets the chance. I hate to sound so blunt, but that is where time is taken away from guys like Kidd and Young. Along with some of these older guys who come back to the company randomly after a hiatus like you mentioned. You get what I mean there?
ReplyDeleteI think Gabriel can be understood enough to the point where his voice and diction are still understandable, so I think in that aspect, he's just not good with promos. You're right that he's only 30, but that will have to change if he expects to move up in the ranks, and charisma just can't be taught.
By the way, that ending segment on SmackDown was arguably one of the worst ones I've seen in a long time. I don't care how big the Big Show is, even someone as small as AJ would not have been knocked unconscious. I know it's staged, but that's just not a believable way to play it. The adjudication process of how to move that storyline is awful. I understand it's a way to complicate the story line, but Big Show crying over running into someone and no actual match decision to a main event title match is arguably the dumbest ending segment I have seen in some time.
I try to play devil's advocate and see where they're coming from, but I personally don't care for Alicia much at all. Mason's "ok" in small doses. I guess they were at least initially thinking of going the Goldberg/Batista route with Mason as just a big, strong guy who should be taken very seriously before presumably realizing that he's way too green to be pushed too hard. It'd be disrespectful to the more experienced and talented performers for him to be pushed as a juggernaut. Ziggler did his best to make him look like a million bucks, but the guy's just not ready to be pushed that much.
ReplyDeleteAlicia has been particularly bad lately. I don't know what's going on there. She's got a decent look as far as the Rihanna similarity and the fox thing she wears and she at least has some character playing with puns playing off of her last name, but she shouldn't be going for the Divas' Title. I think maybe they figured that Beth had already beaten Kelly and Eve a number of times, and possibly they didn't want to push AJ or Kaitlyn as wrestlers yet since they'd been beaten so soundly multiple times (and are relatively new). Hopefully Tamina can work longer matches well enough to step up to the plate.
I definitely see what you're saying. I try to see where they're coming from (though it's hard sometimes). There are so many careers to monitor the progress of and characters to use that mistakes and second-guesses are bound to happen.
As for older performers coming back, I at least think Jericho's very talented and intelligent, and actually helps elevate other talents, so I'm fine with him being there. There are a couple of other people who will likely be in the picture around Mania time that I'm decidedly less excited about seeing for the 1000th time. I won't spoil the supposed plan if you don't want me to.
Hopefully over time Gabriel will get better with promos. If he does, once the Big Shows and Mark Henrys are out of the title picture, he'll be able to progress. The glass ceiling of performers "above" Championship level keeps a lot of people stuck.
Someone came up with a pretty good theory about why they went that route, which would make a lot of sense and I wish I would have thought of it earlier. I don't know if they'll actually go that way with the story (they did drop a hint or two), but it would explain why things went the way they did. I don't know exactly what degree of spoilers you're ok with; everyone has a different amount it seems.
I can see why he'd be devastated if he knocked a 95 lb. woman out so badly that she didn't move for several minutes (and needed to be stretchered out), even in an accident. Especially someone as jovial and friendly as AJ.
As for not having a definitive ending to the match, it's designed to get people watching the next week to see how it will be addressed. While I think you can overdo cliffhangers, they can also be really effective at getting people talking and wanting to see what happens next. Not to mention that an accident that serious would be completely believable to stop a match for. Kind of like an injury timeout.
Yeah, I could see the point from a storyline perspective, but I just wasn't a fan of how it went down. Believability is a big thing with me, and I just don't see how Big Show running not very fast would knock out and put even someone that small on a stretcher. I just think it could have been adjudicated a little better. I know something had to give in that storyline for it to go somewhere, so I like it from that perspective. But, I think making somone a full-out heel by kidnapping or something more pervasive would have been more interesting and believable. Because now, we still can't really tell who is the bad guy now between the two with Bryan's promo this week sucking up to the fans and with Big Show "sending AJ to the hospital".
ReplyDeleteI totally agree with the illegitimacy of pushing Fox. I guess I just don't see the hype in Gabriel, being more of a "complete-package" fan of the sport. He has a decent look, you're right, but I don't think he will get the shackles and cobwebs off of him promo-wise.
I really liked what I saw from Otunga this week. I have always been a fan of him since Season 1 of NXT. I think he would have won it if he had been a little better in the ring, and has always been natural and good on the mic. He still isn't "great" in the ring, but he is getting better, and I hope possibly a feud with Ryder for the title or something of that nature is in his future. I think for some to not think he's ready in the ring, despite being a tag champion for a long time, shows what WWE Management sees in him. Hopefully bright things are in his NEAR future. What do you think?
As I alluded to, if they're going the direction some fans think that they're going, it will explain why it wasn't very believable, and would be pretty definitive on who the heel is.
ReplyDeleteI don't see either Big Show or Bryan kidnapping or anything of the sort. Both have been mostly "good" lately, and people's attitudes and actions don't generally change overnight. I think a lot of fans would be scratching their heads if that happened, since Show's a nice guy and Bryan kidnapping AJ wouldn't really make sense at this juncture because she's in love with him and would be with him willingly.
Bryan's actions and promos lately are (at least in a lot of interpretations) the acts of someone whose success has gone to his head, and will do anything to keep the title. They're dropping hints that he's not the same guy he used to be, with the over-the-top celebrations, goading Mark Henry into hitting him, the "very good wrestler" remarks and the paranoia that fans think he got himself DQ'd.
Big Show didn't send AJ to the hospital on purpose, and was clearly distraught that that happened, so I don't see him as a bad guy.
As long as the fans respond well to Gabriel's offense (and they generally do), he'll be fine as he is for now. Moving up the card might take a while, but I think you can get better with promos in time. He's still pretty early in his career, so I wouldn't count him out yet.
I'm liking Otunga, but he does still have some work to do in improving in the ring. I would have been surprised if he won over Barrett, who was pretty solid in all areas. Especially with that line-up of Pros voting.
The tag team division wasn't really a high priority for them then, so it doesn't mean much in my eyes that he held it for a while. I'm not sweeping it under the rug, but I think that had more to do with the Nexus angle than their opinions of him.
Now it looks like they like him more, and for good reason as he's improved in the ring and as very good on the mic. I don't know if they're thinking of putting him in the U.S. Title picture just yet, but they've at least got their eyes on him.
I just don't like how the whole angle ended up. I don't necessarily think cultivating more of an ego really is axiomatic that Bryan will be a bad guy to the fans. He did pander a bit to them at the beginning of the shoe. I think with him being a full-out good guy before, it doesn't do enough to show he's turned into a bad guy.
ReplyDeleteI'm sure many fans are kind of puzzled in terms of what will happen with Bryan's character. You are right about how it will end up in the near future with him turning, but I won't consider him a bad guy until something more pervasive and obvious happens (like how Young took out Hornswoggle). Some fans just could get it confused with Big Show taking out AJ that he may be the bad guy. I'm really big into realism, so for AJ to get "taken out" by a guy who was basically jogging into her just doesn't go well with me. On top of that, when would the Big Show over cry? Lol.
In relation to Gabriel, I also think I need to see some aggression from him along with promo cutting. I really didn't like him in Season 1 and thought he was lacking sooo much to be ranked in the top 3. I still think he is insanely overrated. Like Jericho said before, he's a "one-trick pony" in my mind. You need to have a mean streak to be able to make it in this industry, regardless of good guy or not, so I can't take him seriously until he corrects that along with his promos. He's kind of like a Baretta in that aspect. Matt Striker illuded to that a few weeks back when he faced Young. Gabriel would be like a "3" in my book right now if he was on NXT.
I think this segment would be of use for him in terms of getting better with promos 2:55 into it (if he has it in him).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tOptnrj6P8w&feature=related
beginning of the show*
ReplyDeleteI would counter that the angle is still going on, and he isn't completely a bad guy yet. It's like, for a lack of an immediate better analogy, Anakin Skywalker becoming Darth Vader. It took place over time.
ReplyDeleteI actually took what he said at the beginning of the show to be kind of off-putting to fans, with the remarks about people in chat rooms and message boards.
Generally ego = bad guy. Part of what got fans behind him in the first place was the contrast he had with the loud and obnoxious Miz. For someone with so much experience and technical prowess, he's been remarkably humble in WWE. And with those wins over Big Show that he brags about being because of Show being unconscious and Mark Henry getting involved, it should tick some people off that he's going around celebrating like he won the main event at WrestleMania (of his own skill). Like when Miz bragged about beating Cena when Rock had a lot to do with it.
I can see not being 100% on him being heel until he does something overt, and you're right that some are still on the fence about the whole ordeal. I just don't see many being confused about Big Show's status, since he stopped in the middle of a World Title match to make sure she was ok and was very clearly upset about the whole ordeal. He probably tried to slow himself down to "avoid hitting her", as I'd like to think most would do when they realize they might run into someone like that.
I can see the crying being excessive (though putting a 95 lb. woman who's a friend of yours on a stretcher should be a pretty jarring experience), but if they go the direction that some fans think they're going, the part with AJ being taken out will make a lot more sense. I'll actually be somewhat disappointed if they don't go that route, because it would fit the (potential) heel character so well.
I don't think Gabriel's a future main eventer or anything, but it's very rare that I see that in someone early in their career. I don't know how highly most would have him rated, but I see a lot of innovative offense and the aforementioned rock star vibe. It's important to note that Season 1 was only a couple on months long, so I only had so much to go on to rank him. I stand by the ranking though, based on where they all were at the time. Tarver didn't show much of anything in the ring, Bryan was doing something almost completely different from the others (and was hard to judge as a result), Skip was just a mess in general (though he got better when he became a more serious character), Young was hard to read because he changed his character midway through and the original character was kind of bizarre, and Slater didn't have much in the way of personality at all.
I could not disagree much more about needing a mean streak to be successful in WWE, especially in a good guy. John Cena, Rey Mysterio, Sin Cara, Jeff Hardy and Rob Van Dam all come to mind as current stars the fans really got/get behind who didn't/don't show an intense mean streak. Even with a big group of fans booing Cena, he's selling a lot of merchandise and a lot of people like what he's doing. It might not be terribly exciting, but the "target audience" generally responds better to more friendly, respectful, heroic characters as good guys. If the good guys AND bad guys lean towards being intense, mean performers, it's not as easy to strongly pull for someone, and the characters all blend together in shades of gray. This also applies in the ring, with high-flying moves vs. more vicious, ruthless attacks. The good guy's generally more concerned with being a better competitor, whereas the bad guy will hurt someone if necessary.
Generally speaking, the good guy is someone the fans want to associate and emphasize with, and the bad guy is bad because he is the antithesis of that. He's the bully or the thief, etc. Take Ryder vs. Ziggler for instance, since that got over pretty well: Ryder's the guy living his dream, the fan who got to do what he wanted to do, the guy giving back to the crowd who supports him, etc. whereas Ziggler's the guy who wanted to prevent that from happening, by cheating if necessary. He's the brash, obnoxious punk standing in his way.
ReplyDeleteHopefully that illustrates my points without sounding disrespectful of yours. It isn't a black and white "this works and this doesn't" thing. Otherwise it'd be pretty easy to be successful I'd think.
I can see where you're coming from. I, along with Striker, just am a "complete package" guy. I like to see even good guys having some sort of mean streak, along with in-ring and promo talent. I'm not necessarily saying a mean streak every week is what I mean, but just some mean streak at times (like Kofi Kingston when he feuded with Orton). I just see it as if you get attacked one week, that mean streak HAS to be there for you to have the aggression to attack that person back to show you're not passive. I think you could still identify, in that light, that one is still a good guy. Cultivating that mean streak every so often is identifiable still in that light, but I for sure see your objection to it.
ReplyDeleteFair point about how talking about an ego could/would mean being a bad guy. I have no doubt Bryan is on that route to being one, but I just need more assurance.I mean, once Cole actually praises him, you KNOW he is officially a bad guy and has moved on from pandering lol.
With the previous season being two months, I do think if they change character, it is a little short to evaluate. Fair point. Let me put it this way: Along with what you mentioned in Season 1, Young also turned from kind of a panderous good guy in the beginning of Season 5 to being a full-out bad guy who attacks Leprechauns just weeks later. I'm not gonna blame him or Saxton for switching personas, but I do agree two months' assessment can be kind of short to evaluate those people like Young and Saxton who switched.
In terms of Gabriel, though, I kind of have to jump to the assessment (after almost two years in the WWE) that he isn't going to change his persona and that two months was enough FOR HIM, that is. I just don't see any chance of him being even an "Intercontinental-level" guy, because charisma can't be taught. I may be too critical here, but look at it like this: He was better than Otunga in the ring by a good amount in Season 1, but still finished behind Otunga in the rankings. That shows how much personality is valued in this industry.
I just think one has to have the ability/talent to eventually be both a bad guy and a good guy (people like Punk, Orton, Cena, and all of the established stars have done it) to make it in this industry SUSTAINABLY. That is kind of where I don't see Gabriel even being a mid-level guy, because now, even mid-level guys like Rhodes are cutting promo after promo.
If someone's being pushed closer to the top of the card or has many years of experience, I can see looking for a complete package. Generally we don't get to see everything someone's made of in their first couple of years in the company, unless they're REALLY impressive. Kofi was in a pretty similar position to Gabriel when he first got started on the ECW brand. Smiling, jovial babyface with flashy offense. The feud with Orton, which I also enjoyed and felt it made Kofi more of a legitimate threat, didn't happen until he had worked his way up the ranks and led a number of lower-tier titles. Gabriel "debuting" as part of a faction made it even more difficult for him to stand out early.
ReplyDeleteI think I misinterpreted what you meant about mean streaks. I viewed at as more evil and malicious, like attacking someone when they're down. Would giving a lot of effort and being motivated, having heart and fighting spirit and all that kind of thing be similar?
I really only see it as pandering when it's either disingenuous or just blatant kissing up (wearing a Yankees cap in New York, that kind of thing).
I don't think I'd write anyone completely off one way or another after two months. Sometimes even a couple of years isn't enough time. Look at Mark Henry's career for a textbook example. Steve Austin spent 4 years in WCW as a fairly clean-cut babyface who as far as I know was nothing like the Stone Cold character. The Rock was Rocky Maivia, and fans booed him even as a good guy. People weren't sure about Orton as a main eventer even a good while after his first World Title reign. Rey Mysterio was seen as a midcard/tag team guy for years, even in WWE. Dolph Ziggler wasn't taken seriously until a decent way into his current character. And so on and so forth... someone breaking out in their first couple of years is the exception rather than the rule.
His persona can always change down the line. It's not necessarily up to him. Right now, they're presumably content to let him grow in the role he's in while they push people who have been there longer. He is getting a decent push, though.
I don't know if he'll make it higher than Otunga, but they did rank him 3rd for a reason I think. You can get more comfortable on the mic as you do more promos. Jericho did some of his best work in his last run, which was quite a few years after he started.
Personality is more than just what you can do on the microphone. It's how you look and carry yourself. Gabriel's not amazing, but he does stand out with his offense, gestures and movements. His ring gear, what he wears, etc. all factors in.
And I agree that generally someone has to be able to pull off both sides of the coin over their careers. I liked Gabriel as a heel in Nexus, for instance. Punk, Orton, and Cena have all been in WWE a good deal longer than Gabriel, and as such have gotten the opportunity to get good-sized runs as both heels and faces (though Cena hasn't been heel in quite some time).
The reason Rhodes is cutting a lot of promos is because he's being pushed as someone moving up the card. He's another guy who was written off early in his career before coming into his own once he hit the "Dashing" character. He had a pretty rough start before then. Barely stood out at all beyond his last name. Given how well he's been pushed lately, mid-level might be a bit low to consider him. I can see him as World Champion by the end of the year.
I guess it just comes down to that I don't see much in Gabriel and am more of a perceptionist. I just don't think Gabriel is man enough to pull off what Punk, Cena and Orton have done in being able to be a success as both a bad guy and good guy. We'll see in the (near) future if he can pull it off. Until then, he's just a one-trick pony to me.
ReplyDeleteBy the way, have you noted that verbal battle between Young and O'Neil on Twitter? I like the intensity both men are showing, and it shows how much both want the upper-hand this week. I can't wait until this week's show.
I don't see how we're going to see that in the near future if they're going to use him as a clean-cut, high flying babyface. Especially when they're teaming him up with Hornswoggle, who's about as safe and kid friendly as you can get. I don't see a reason for him to be aggressive and bad guy-esque in that role. I do think that he did well enough as a member of Nexus.
ReplyDeleteTo me, this is something akin to watching Heath Ledger in Brokeback Mountain and writing him off as not having what it takes to be the Joker. It's an admittedly odd reference, but WWE's somewhat similar to Hollywood post-NXT. They cast you in a role, and you don't get as much input in how you play it. If they decide to use him as a heel, maybe then we'll see if he's fit for that kind of thing.
Not to mention that some successful actors go their whole careers as either comedy or drama because they do so well in one, but not the other. That doesn't make them mediocre, just maybe typecast.
As for the Twitter battle, I wish Young's character on-screen had that much depth and variety of verbiage. It was good, but it's not going to affect my ranking of him if we don't see that kind of thing when he has a mic.
He did have that chance, though. Twice I believe. He was bad guy for about half of his WWE career so far. My justification towards my hostility towards Gabriel is partially based on that he was indeed a bad guy before, and didn't do well at all in that role. When he was a tag champion with Slater, I saw next to nothing from him personality and aggression-wise as a bad guy. As a matter of fact, I don't even remember hearing him speak! lol. I mean, you saw that "flower" promo he did, right? Arguably top three worst promos I've ever seen, and I don't even think he's done even a 30-second promo since he was in the Nexus, and that was as a group.
ReplyDeleteTo me, the typical bad guy shows little remorse, ruthlessness and will stop at nothing to one-up someone. I definitely didn't see that from him. I just have to take a page out of Jericho's playbook by saying he's a one-trick pony. Can he prove me wrong? Maybe, but he hasn't yet. He just isn't bad-guy material in my mind, and to me, two years' of basically being stagnant personality-wise kind of shows it.
I guess we will just have to agree to disagree here. I won't say he has no chance of proving me wrong, but then again, it is just one person's opinion.
I suppose you're right about him previously being a heel (though I think he did decently then in his somewhat limited role), but it's possible he's gotten better since then (I thought Daniel Bryan was pretty bad promo-wise, and he's growing on me now). I've been surprised at how people have changed over the years. R-Truth and Mark Henry in 2011 in particular surprised me by being much better characters than I had initially suspected given their recent work beforehand, though I think Henry did pretty well as a heel on the ECW brand.
ReplyDeleteAnyway, I think I've made my point and am kind of going in circles about people evolving over the courses of their careers. There've even been people I pretty much wrote off early in their careers who came back and did pretty well.
I didn't remember the "flower" promo off the top of my head, but I looked it up. Yeah, there's not much defending that outside of the "not being prepared" stuff. Talking's definitely not his strong suit, which is why it's good for now that he doesn't have to do much of it. I think he did sound more confident last time we heard him speak on NXT, though.
Not every bad guy has to fit that role to me. It would get really monotonous if every bad guy played off of that theme. I certainly like bad guys like that, but I'd need some variety. I think some of this comes from the criticism I hear leveled at Ring of Honor: that it's basically "everyone's an intense athlete trying to one-up each other with even bigger moves and longer matches". Is it good pure wrestling? In its own way, but it gets pretty tiring and derivative when they keep having to pull more tricks out of the hat instead of going into different directions. It gets to the point where the crowd won't react to anything short of crazy shenanigans with weapons and/or what basically amounts to Iron Man matches.
And of course some of what Jericho said was to hype up Barrett and (as a heel) to antagonize the good guy.
LONG story short, I like Gabriel where he is for now. Is he close to any titles or anything? Not really. But he's got a good little niche for now and the fans seem to be responding to him so that's good enough for me. If they start using him as a main eventer or something, I'll share the concern that he's not ready.