We're up to 100 episodes of NXT. After all the eliminations, challenges, line-up changes, and surprises, here we are. As we head to Vegas, who will stake their claim as the dominant force of Season 5? Darren Young goes up against Titus O'Neil in a no-DQ showdown, and Johnny Curtis looks to marry Maxine. Anything can happen in a WWE wedding! Read on for my thoughts on the show as it happens.
Good video package on one of the weirdest love triangles I can ever remember. It set the stage for today's big episode well. Everyone does their role well.
Oh, boy. I guess that makes sense if we're going for a train wreck today, though.
They're starting off big apparently.
I'm getting kind of worn out with Young for whatever reason. It's like he's stuck on a treadmill, running hard but not moving anywhere.
Welp, looks like Titus is going to be the bigger guy here.
Way to bury NXT.
Not bad from Titus with the power game.
Nice use of the ring apron.
They need to decide if this show's going to be serious or something to mock.
Good moves by both guys. If this is the last time we see them face off, they're making it matter.
Young's at least technically proficient.
Didn't see that one coming. A little early for such a big move (?).
Not bad by Titus. They did a good job playing to his strengths. He's moved on from being an awkward football player trying to wrestle I think to some level.
Pretty good fire by Titus.
So, all that was just building up to Titus hating the fans? NXT's a CRAZY place.
Yeah, he's kind of flustered it sounds. Not an amazing talker by any stretch.
Wait. I thought Hornswoggle got to speak because of the wish with Santa.
Titus has been on Smackdown, Raw (backstage), and Superstars.
Good effort but it wasn't a "main roster" level promo. Kind of an odd way to go with him. Shaking my head here. What's this all leading to? He just made it through a big rivalry with a hated heel and now... curious.
Nice goofy tuxedo shirt. This should be fun.
Oh, Cole and Josh. I get a Statler and Waldorf vibe from them sometimes.
Hmm, maybe we end up with Percy vs. Titus? Percy's got good potential as a babyface.
The line about commentators got me. Cole has no filter it feels like and SOMETIMES that's funny.
Good of Slater to taunt to get the crowd to react. Not a bad start, but it feels like filler instead of something we need to see between two up-and-comers.
Wait... Percy's not one of the contestants, is he?
Josh is just as confused as everyone else about this show.
Yeah, these two are still early in their paths as performers. Good basics, but a longer match doesn't come easy (as far as tempo and the crowd being into it, etc). That takes time to learn.
Not a bad little match.
They're just making up the rules and contestants as they go along I think. Wasn't this an alumni match?
God, what a bad pun.
Not a bad backstage segment, but not what I was hoping for from them.
I think it's pretty clever how they're modeling Cena/Rock after Team Edward and Team Jacob.
At least Curtis and Maxine are trying to do something on this show. Even if there's not much of a chance of them ever getting off of it the way things are headed.
Is Kaitlyn wearing Derrick's beanie?
Yoshi's character's really a mess right now. He went through this serious change with the Muta transformation, and he's still smiling and waving to the crowd like it meant nothing.
Cole can just say anything, can't he?
Cole actually made some good points there in his own way. He's right about people talking more about him than some performers.
I get the feeling that Cole's comments aren't just a character mouthing off sometimes.
Oh hey, isn't there a match or something going on? Kind of getting lost in the chaos on commentary.
Cole's right about heels cashing in being booed, when faces can do the same thing and be cheered.
Trent can fly; I'll give him that. I wouldn't mind him teaming with Kofi if Bourne can't get his act together.
See? No one knows what the heck's going on on NXT.
Cole was actually going to be a Pro on NXT Season 2. No lie.
Good finisher by Reks. Fine little match but it meant nothing because commentary was focused on other things and no stories went anywhere. Basically filler.
Disasters can be epic.
That was a good segment to close Raw.
Haha. Vintage footage. I guess some day people will look at Punk in the same way we're looking at the Dynamic Dudes.
The WWE production team is amazing. They can make just about anything look big and meaningful.
I figured there'd be more wedding-based segments and love stories like there was for the so bad it was good Aksana-Goldust wedding. We had all kinds of crazy hook-ups backstage.
Oh God, really? There's ridiculous and then there's this.
Ouch. Cole doesn't like much of anyone, does he?
I hate when someone looks familiar and I can't place them. Especially when no one says who they are. It could just be Curtis' brother or something.
This is a really toned-down wedding compared to some of the ones we've seen in the past. They must have used up NXT's budget on all those challenges.
This is some kind of new level of "what the heck am I watching?".
Great timing by Bateman.
Soap opera time!
Hahahahaha I love Bateman's locker.
This is kind of underwhelming. I expected a lot more crazy from the people involved and the others present on the show. There had to have been some cameos they could have had.
I don't even know what to say about this segment anymore, other than it shouldn't be taken seriously on really any level. The sooner we put this in the past (with Perez Hilton's appearance on Raw), the better. I guess some would say that true art is confusing, though?
On to rankings. 5 is "ready" without any huge flaws, 4 is mostly good but needs work, 3 is in the middle ground, either decent or needs a lot of work to be something of worth, 2 is mostly terrible but might have something redeeming, and 1 should not be on the show.
Derrick Bateman- 5 (Last week: 5). His character's off-the-wall and goofy, and he plays it well. He stands out in the ring, and so on. If there are only so many spots on the roster, a young, motivated, and fresh performer with a unique look is someone easier to go to bat for. I say he's ready for a chance to show his worth touring with the Smackdown roster. At least a chance. (Grade: A).
Titus O'Neil- 4 (Last week: 4). I'm kind of confused with where Titus is right now. His promo this week was inspired, but he almost tripped over his words. He's getting more smooth in the ring, but still has a ways to go. There are times when I think he could have something if he continues to develop and is used in the right role, but there are other times when I think maybe he should be "Husky Harris'd" and taken off for some time for re-tooling. It's the whole "Santa stuck in the chimney" problem: if they pull him out, the chimney might collapse, but if they keep him in, he might not be able to make it all the way through for a while. It's a long, hard slog to being fully ready for the roster, and progress is just so-so right now. BUT I am interested in what happens with him from here, so that's something. (Grade: lower B range).
Darren Young- 4 (Last week: 4). I've said about everything there is to say about him at this point. He shows some very impressive offense, but I don't know if he's someone I want to see every week. Maybe facing off with a different opponent will change things, but lately everything's been the same thing over and over since his character's not going anywhere. He's Sisyphus right now: no matter how hard he pushes the rock up the hill, he's not going to reach the top. Since he lost to Titus and Titus is a heel now, this would be the perfect opportunity to change things up with a new character or philosophy. Just... something for him to stand out again other than for being a hard worker. (Grade: B, but in the same way that taking the same test over and doing mostly the same things will give you the same result.)
If I had to eliminate someone, it would be: Darren Young. He needs a reboot more than the other two. O'Neil's not amazing, but I'm interested in watching his improvement and character growth. Young, not so much. It'd be kind of unexpected for him to be a good guy, and it feels like there's no new ground for him to cover as a heel. He's done the same act against the same opponent for months, and it's really gotten old to me.
I feel like I'm really going in circles in my analysis of Young. I'm seriously considering only talking about what's different each week and moving on to avoid beating a dead horse.
Anyway, that's a wrap for NXT this week. Superstars and Impact Wrestling are up tomorrow, and a news post will be up later. Thanks for reading!
Cole buried Titus! Lol. Horrible promo. For Cole to bury a heel promo, you know it was bad lol. Good insights, but the only thing I disagree on is the “going in circles” comment about Young. I understand that he does a lot of the same things (pointing to the tron, “this is my house” and “Mr. No Days Off”, but keep in mind that none of that was present at the beginning of this season. It gets him noticed, and a lot of stars on the main rosters even have similar routines they do often.
ReplyDeleteNo offense, but to me it’s kind of overshadowed by this upcoming rant lol. I know this is a business with fixed match results, but Young and Kidd combined have like a 3-13 or so record against Titus and Tatsu, respectively now. To quote Zack Ryder: Are you serious? I don’t want to play the hateful game here, but Kidd and Young are miles better in the ring (Young proved that tonight), and are considerably better and more determined than Tatsu and Titus. Continuously the WWE keeps making head-scratching decisions.
Like I’ve been saying, I know it’s not about wins and losses, but I just disagree with some of the directions WWE Management takes. People like Kidd and Young continue to get short-changed time and time again, when people like Yoshi Tatsu and Titus seem to get more convinceability. I know Young and Kidd have dreamed of being in this company for decades, when people like Titus just considered this career well into his adult years. I mean, Tatsu can’t even talk or cut a promo, but yet he can continuously be booked to be victorious over Kidd? Young can dominate on WWE Superstars and seemingly be on the road to more of a push, and he comes up limp courtesy of WWE Management?
I guess I should have seen this one coming. It’s commonplace for a bad guy to get the upper-hand with sneak attacks in non-match situations, like costing a good guy a match, so naturally the match decision is going to obviously be in Titus’ favor. It’s kind of like the Barrett-Orton feud: Orton has won like five out of seven matches between them overall all-time, but Barrett may SEEM like he’s had the upper-hand with the sneak attacks and whatnot. I guess it’s just the nature of the beast where the good guy gets the last laugh in a match after the bad guy had it previously. Very predictable, however; almost to the point where it’s obvious what would happen here.
By the way, to exemplify the head-scratching decisions Management makes, how does Young take Titus out for two weeks with his finisher, but yet Titus can KICK OUT of his finisher in two seconds????? And I agree with Cole in that 46 weeks and Titus’ promos are still mediocre. TITUS AS A HEEL???? THAT MAKES DANIEL BRYAN’S HEEL TURN ACTUALLY DUEABLE! Where is this going to go? I don’t think he has the ruthlessness to pull this off.
I get the impression that Cole just shoots off at the mouth sometimes instead of just being a bad guy suckup, especially on NXT where hardly anyone's watching. Like sometimes he makes fun of Chimel and in Season 3 he said that he and Chimel were the studs of the show. The show's so low on the totem pole that they basically amuse themselves at times. Especially when Cole's involved.
ReplyDeleteYes, some performers have "Five Moves of Doom" and such. But Cena and Orton (and so on) have a lot of charisma and work with a lot of different performers with varied attributes,so it doesn't feel as much like they're doing the same thing week after week as long as they're cycled into different stories. Their characters progress over time, and I'm not seeing that from Young (some if not most of the blame for that falls on Creative). Even if it's not what he did at the beginning of the season, it's been going on for seemingly many months.
To be blunt, WWE doesn't really care about win-loss records (unless there's a story about someone losing or winning a lot of times in a row). I would be shocked if they kept note of those things. To them, these are characters and it's a TV show instead of a sport. It's all about whether they think a character can make them money or would be better used to help others make money.
Similarly, WWE isn't looking for who's the better athlete or who can do the most moves or anything like that. It's like how a movie can win Oscars and be the best-acted thing on the planet, but a movie studio's more concerned with trying to make the next "Twilight" phenomenon or something (or in this case something more moderately successful, since I don't think they have hopes that high for Titus).
Now, if well-acted Oscar caliber films made tons of money and appealed to a lot of demographics and so on, we'd see more in the vein of them instead of whatever generic CGI thing is going to hit cinemas next.
As for Kidd and Young, if anything they think that they're so good at the nuts and bolts of ring work that they seek them out to work with people who aren't as good so that they can help them along as being bigger deals.
They could theoretically be thinking of the Japanese market with pushing Yoshi. Similarly to Jinder Mahal being so prominent now (with India in that case). As American markets remain lukewarm, they look to grow business elsewhere. Is it "right" to do? Maybe not, but they're looking at that a lot moreso than putting on a good wrestling show.
I would note that a win out of nowhere with an RKO after being dominated for a lot of the match would count the same as theoretically beating Barrett in 5 seconds if you just look at the record. They try to "protect" both guys that way by not just going off of that.
As far as WWE goes at least, it's a pretty common theme that the good guy eventually prevails, going back at LEAST as far as Hogan fending off countless threats (and making a lot of money doing it). I guess that's true for just about any form of fiction that's successful. It's the journey moreso than the destination.
I agree that it's odd that Titus was taken out with the same move that he kicked out of. Inconsistent even. I'd imagine the story is that he wasn't going to go down without a fight this time because the stakes were a lot higher and he has a new attitude and determination and all that kind of stuff.
I'd think they have a reason for doing what they're doing with Titus. They clearly see something in him, so I guess they're seeing if he'll fit better into things as a heel. We'll see how well it works in the weeks and months to come, but on the surface it's surprising at least.
Hypothetically, would you rather see Titus do the same shtick he's been doing or try to be a heel?
One thing I forgot to add: I don't think they'd use Kidd and Young as much as they do if they didn't like what they see. They just see them more as ways to get others more over and better.
DeleteYeah, all fair points there. I just try to look at things from all sides of the coin, so it's hard for me to COMPLETELY factor out the adjudication process of wins/losses and MGT decisions. Basically, I just over-think it fairly often. I get more concerned with why decisions are made then what is actually proven. Like we talked about, a performance in a loss can be more impressive than a performance in a win. We will see what perspires with Young, though.
ReplyDeleteWith that being said, what specifically do you think Young could do to switch things up? I know you made a point in that some of it is Creative's fault, which is true, because he's already feuded with Titus in the past. It can get kind of washed up after time with few competitors on the show. I personally think a feud with one of the pros would work wonders for him. What would you think of a face turn? I mean, he's done about as much as he can as a heel.
As far as Titus goes, I admit it is interesting to see what amounts of him as a bad guy. Do you think he has the ruthlessness/charisma to pull it off? I think that will be a real test, because like I said, TRUE stars in this company need to be able to prove they could make it SUSTAINABLY as a bad and good guy.
One thing to also consider is that now that he's moving into the "bad guy" mold, the catchphrases and dogbark and non-tangible ways he identifies will now be gone. You are a big believer in ways to stand out, and that is also something that he will have to work for in adding new ways to stand out. Can he do it? We will see, but I'm skeptical.
And fair point about the international market. I can see it from a marketing perspective to push Tatsu. But, doesn't that seem like pushing people like Tatsu is more of a marketing ploy to get international exposure? I mean, let's call a spade a spade here, is Yoshi Tatsu really main-event or even mid-level caliber? lol. He is pretty good in the ring, but he can't even cut a promo.
ReplyDeleteI agree in part that another dimension to the company is from a "selling" standpoint. That is fairly logical, but like we talked about before, I just think that SHOULD be secondary to talent and raw-ability and charisma. Unless someone is just flat-out boring, I would think it SHOULD be secondary.
One last comment on the O'Neil matter, Chuck, in regards to the rankings... I must agree with Michael Cole. Titus' promo was mostly horrible. He stuttered and didn't know what to really say most of the time. He was torn between calling Hownswoggle a "midget" and a "leprechaun." Titus came off as the pouting heel than anything else, and with his size, I don't like that. He should be in that position to just wield that domination tactic, tell the audience to "shut up" or whatever. "Losers" doesn't cut it for me, but at least it's consistent with his "make it a win" catchphrase. You can tell he wasn't comfortable with snapping on the WWE Universe. Titus hasn't embraced the heel role yet. I'll give him a pass for now, but I expect him to do better than that. Darren, on the other hand, has done pretty well as a heel.
ReplyDeleteI think Young might need to slow down what he does and maybe tone things down a bit. It sounds counter-intuitive, but I think it could work. One thing I'm noticing more and more about guys higher up on the card is that they don't just go 100 miles per hour on the mic or in the ring. They speak more softly and get a read for the crowd. Kind of a "speak less, say more" thing. Make what he does do stand out more instead of just going from move to move and talking point to talking point. Keep it to how he's No Days Off or is out to hurt people or is the best competitor on NXT (or not a loser like Titus, etc.) instead of combining a lot of things together.
ReplyDeleteAlso, and we saw this on Superstars to some degree, he should have a game plan. Instead of just hitting big moves then playing to the crowd, maybe focus more on the "wearing your opponent down so he's weaker for the Gut Check" aspect of the match. That would fit well with the moves on the apron and grapevine around the abdomen. I remember the line about Chris Benoit that he had little wasted motion in the ring. He was focused on beating his opponent with everything he did.
Oh, and his look should be consistent with his character. Heath Slater's attire fits that of a One Man Rock Band. Cena's character and attire are clearly defined. Ditto for Orton (with the tattoos matching his tights) and Barrett (with the rose and anchor symbol) and Ryder and so on. Maybe he could wear knee braces or something to add impact to the Gut Check? Something along those lines.
If he does go face, it's all a matter of how well he does it. I wasn't crazy about him in his original gimmick on NXT Season 1, because there wasn't much background for it. And it seemed kind of a weird fit honestly. So hopefully he'd be a character that would be really natural for him.
Anyway, moving on. I think Titus COULD work as a heel. He could channel the frustration of people writing him off as a football player trying to wrestle, that he's come into the business too late at 34, and so on. That's up to him, though.
I disagree about someone needing to be able to pull off both sides of the coin to be successful. Rey Mysterio and The Miz for instance don't work well on the other side (though I think in time fans might latch on to Miz's catchphrases and the like and turn him face some day). It's like how Adam Sandler doesn't do dramatic roles or play someone evil. Fans like him as he is, so if he wants to make money he'll stick with that kind of thing.
I don't think he has to drop the dog bark. He can do it for himself instead of the crowd, and shush them for trying to play along. It can be a pretty annoying sound, so I think MAYBE it could work in that fashion. Similarly, he can say he's "making it a win" without the fans holding him back. He also needs more to his character. Maybe something like a three-point stance into a spear to play off of his football background? You do need some signature spots (but they need to mean something instead of just going from one to another like it feels like Young does at times). The exceptions are things like Cena's signature ending moves, because they're part of one ending sequence instead of being big moves in their own right.
And maybe it is a marketing ploy. It's all about selling tickets and all that kind of stuff. If the Japanese market likes Tatsu, and he's good enough to be believable in his role, I don't have a problem with it. I wouldn't just throw any Japanese performer in there to appeal to them because that would be pretty blatantly racist, but if his job is to make them money and he does that (without injuring someone or being high on the job or anything else egregious enough to warrant taking him off of TV) I don't see a reason to not use him from a business perspective.
ReplyDeleteI used to think like that, and it would make TV more enjoyable to some degree (no Hornswoggle or Cole), but if they just try to make the best show with the most talented superstars, that won't necessarily keep them in business. A lot of people say the Transformers movies are very badly acted and directed, but it made so much money that they went forward with it.
Very talented performers have wrestled intense, long matches in front of hardly any people. It might be "better" than WWE's approach, but it isn't necessarily sustainable. Some would even argue that they're not as talented (I'd say more "differently talented") than someone like Titus, since their job is to get people to watch every week and boo and cheer and such. You might be able to make the best meal ever eaten, but if you work at McDonald's, your job is to make that kind of hamburger.
It was a mess. I think he tried too hard. I can see him not wanting to say "midget" because theoretically someone would get offended and boycott WWE or something like the problems they had with GLAAD and the National Guard.
It is week one of him as a heel, though, so I don't grade him too harshly as long as it's not that bad every time. It wasn't a promo from someone ready for Raw or Smackdown, definitely. I think the dominant heel role could work out well for him on NXT at least (since later he'd have to compete with Kane, Mark Henry, and Big Show as really dominant characters). I'll give him some time to get comfortable in the role, since it can be very different from being a face.
Yeah, from the Tatsu point, I do agree that it is a business. I guess me being a guy who isn't employed by the WWE, I kind of look at it differently, so I can see some of their point in kind of catering to marketing ploys. To kind of supplement that point, I think since some fans watch WWE programming for even just one star, (Cena, Orton) I think if it was more "talent and charisma-based" versus "marketing-based", I think it could work. But, you are right in that it would still have some flaws. I guess my suggestion overall would be kind of a happy medium there, because you need to keep talent in-line with marketing.
ReplyDeleteFrom the Titus standpoint, I agree that it will take some time to evaluate this. I agree it is interesting to see how it will amount as a bad guy. However, being kind of a perceptionist and hearing a lot of the fans' reactions, you can kind of understand how I/we'd be a bit flustered and skeptical. Titus has his strengths, but promos and characteristics of a heel aren't typically some of them. You get what I mean there? But, we will have to wait and see. Like you mentioned, people can surprise you.
Generally if someone's incredibly talented and charismatic, they're not hard to market as long as they catch on and have a niche and so on. What prevented Orton and (especially) Cena from being on the bubble was them having something beyond being great in the ring and on the mic in a traditional sense. Cena with his rap gimmick and Orton with the Legend Killer storyline. Compare their looks and gimmicks now to when they first appeared in WWE:
ReplyDeletehttp://i2.ytimg.com/vi/5-csHZVrk7c/hqdefault.jpg
http://www.obsessedwithwrestling.com/pictures/r/randyorton/19.jpg
Now, it took years for them to become how they are now and grow in their roles and all that, but the point is that they weren't just good wrestlers who had good moves. If they were, I don't see them being anywhere near as big as they are now. There's a reason Zack Ryder and Cody Rhodes are getting more TV time than they were years ago.
I'm not completely sure what you're advocating as far as it being based on talent on charisma. Who would you use more and who would you feature less, and why?
It seems like pretty much anything that's new or different gets at least a partial negative reaction. "Why'd they change this? What are they thinking?" etc. Sometimes they know what they're doing and it ends up working out splendidly. I think it's all a matter of how it turns out and whether or not it works for them.
What I meant by that happy medium between having the shows be a combination of "talent and charisma-based" versus being simply "marketing-based" is to simply recruit more international stars that have more to offer or to build up some of these current ones. I mean, Tatsu is good in the ring, but does he really have the tools to be a sustainable champion? McIntyre has a lot of tools, so why not build him up? Kind of a consideration of both.
ReplyDeleteWhen you hear about all of the international exposure the WWE has gotten with all of these tours and fans from different countries, there really isn't too many international stars that are mid card or higher. Outside Barrett and Sheamus, there isn't much to offer in terms of the HUGE amount of countries in the world versus the small amount of international superstar success. If you look back at a lot of these international recruits the WWE has brought in (Tatsu, Muhammed Hassan), they haven't panned out. It seems that they are kind of brought in to reach more of an international demographic instead of actual talent and "complete package". Even from a marketing standpoint, some of them haven't panned out.
That can kind of lead back to the point that WWE Management kind of makes unanalyzed decisions in terms of pushes and whatnot. I'm just not impressed with Tatsu enough to find him credible. Guys like Jinder Mahal and McIntyre are more credible, because they can cut a decent promo and have good in-ring talent, but haven't gotten too much success lately. Just recruiting more people like him.
By the way, Cole is STILL hammering Bryan. I remember last week you mentioned he would eventually cheer him, being someone who cheers the bad guys. Do you think with him hammering Bryan for so long that he will continue regardless?
ReplyDeleteIt's not that simple or straightforward unfortunately. With so few spots, they're really selective about who they recruit. They do have a number of international prospects in FCW (including a Japanese tag team), but much like minor league baseball they look for just the right qualities in someone and it generally takes a while for someone to develop well enough to make it to where WWE wants to put them on TV.
ReplyDeleteNot everyone on the roster is going to be an eventual champion, just like not everyone in movies are going to have major roles. You need supporting characters/designated hitters and that kind of thing. If you try to push too many people at once, things get muddied. Someone pretty much has to be higher up than others and so on.
As for McIntyre, I think the whole hotel incident with Tiffany has had something to do with him not being used as much as he could be. Sometimes no one seems to know why they use people the way they do.
It's hard to get midcard are higher in your first couple of years unless you really stand out and get over. Once someone's a top guy, they tend to stay there for a while (Kane, Show, Henry, Cena) and it prevents people from moving up.
It's not just number of countries but the size of the market in question and a number of other considerations. Wrestling's big in Mexico, so we do get Mysterio, Del Rio, and to some degree Sin Cara nearer to the top of the card when they're healthy. Note that all three of them have a good deal of experience, pre-WWE in the case of the latter two. Wrestling's still fairly new in India, so we've only had Khali and Jinder being pushed recently.
Tatsu's still there, so there's still a chance for him to pan out. I think he's at least been somewhat successful. You need people at all places on the card. As for Hassan, he was American and they weren't trying to reach for Arab markets by pushing him. They would have likely done a lot more with him if it weren't for the controversy the gimmick caused. Those weren't the best examples.
Of course they analyze their decisions. They just factor in and value different things than some do. Jinder's doing pretty well for someone with relatively little experience at 25, and who hasn't been on TV all that long. They don't want to push someone to the moon before they "pay their dues". Success can go to their heads and all that. He also still has a ways to go in the ring, but he seems to be learning quickly.
I don't remember saying that about Cole. If I did, I shouldn't have, because I don't know that he will. It seems like he's got free reign to say whatever he wants to, so he could very well keep undermining him.
It's just frame of reference about those guys we mentioned. We both make valid points, but everyone has their own opinions on the matter. I think there are some guys on the roster that will never pan out, and some that have enough tools to make it in the company. That can be one of the reasons I and a lot of others feel WWE Management has been a little ill-fated with some of their decisions.
ReplyDeleteYou do make a fair point about giving some stars more time, but my main point against it is...Let me put it this way: Charisma and personality can't really be taught. Therefore, I think guys like Tatsu (even if he mastered the English language) won't pan out. He's just simply a good wrestler, and I don't think things will change, even if given more air time.
To your point about not everyone being a champion...That is fairly true, but isn't that what they joined the WWE for in part? I don't think guys like Tatsu joined the WWE to be booked on shows that aren't even televised lol. I think there is always that goal in mind that even though they are in the WWE, why settle for being underutilized? Some of these guys could have been huge stars in other countries, but end up being lower-card here.
That is kind of where the aforementioned lack of sense by WWE Management can come into play with talent. I mean, Drew made a mistake, but is he really lacking the skill and marketability to lose to guys like Santino like three times in a row? This is a guy who has taken down guys like Kane and John Morrison.
To your point about Henry as one of your examples of ones who stay at the "high-card": He was mid-card basically all of like 2005-2010 (something like that). I think he has only won just a couple of titles his whole 15 years or so in the company. I think that kind of proves my point in that some of these guys (McIntyre) have just as much to offer, so why give Henry the push and not them? Even a mid-level push for guys like McIntyre would be sufficient.
It wasn't a good frame of reference. You said "a lot" of international recruits, but only listed 2. And one of them wasn't even an international recruit.
ReplyDeleteI think having some people that won't pan out is pretty much inevitable, just as it is in other areas like baseball. As I said, you need people at all levels on the card. Not everyone's a home run hitter. You need base hitters and even some bunters to set up base hits and home runs.
It's not just air time. Experience is also a major factor. I don't necessarily see this happening with Tatsu, but a lot of performers get better the more they work in front of crowds. We're talking years here. It's very rarely easy to predict who exactly will break out and who won't. Miz was written off as a joke as soon as he appeared, Mark Henry was "just a strong sluggish guy", etc..
NXT and Superstars are televised internationally. Tatsu's getting a steady paycheck and steady work touring all over the world in the top wrestling company. He wouldn't necessarily get that in Japan. It'd be MUCH harder for him to stand out with his style there. He at least has the chance to make it up the card here. I don't see him getting too high, but it could work out. It'd be ridiculous for him to quit if they'll keep using him.
It's always possible they have something in mind with McIntyre. I agree that they've misused him and dropped the ball.
As for Henry, he was injured for 2005. In 2006, he headlined the Royal Rumble for the World Title and challenged The Undertaker at WrestleMania. Had he not been injured, he would have feuded with Batista. In 2007, he feuded with Kane and Undertaker again. In 2008, he was ECW Champion and feuding with Kane and Big Show.
He did stagnate on Raw for a while after that, but wasn't booked as a joke or anything so he was still somewhat strong for some of it. Ignoring this part of the picture was an error on my part, since he wasn't a top guy there. Counting anything before he became a main eventer isn't really relevant, since I wasn't arguing that he had been near the top of the card since he debuted.
The other examples hold true though. I'd add Orton, and Taker/HHH/Batista/Edge/HBK/Mysterio when they were/are around. Once they made it to that top level (not counting Orton's botched 2004 title reign), they pretty much stayed there.
Mark Henry is a lot more experienced and credible (with his size and background), so he's easier to put in the main event picture. He might not have too long left in the company with his age and history of injuries, so they want to get the most out of him. The crowd already reacted pretty well to him, so it was easier to push that even further as a main event force.
Also, as I mentioned, they don't want to push a younger performer too quickly because of the whole Brock Lesnar situation. They want to make sure they can trust someone to not let sudden success go to their heads. Making that much money that quickly can be pretty jarring.
Yeah, you're probably more educated on the international market than I am. I'm more of a wins/losses guy and may not have as much knowledge in some wrestling areas such as that because of it. In terms of the recruits I mentioned, I'm not really spending gobs of time on researching or naming them, so it was more of a rough name-drop (my apologies). Part of it is that it's harder to understand my message when I'm typing it instead of speaking it.
ReplyDeleteHowever, there have been others that have been either under-utilized or just don't have the tools to be sustainable in my opinion. I guess it just varies from person to person. I know if I was to ask the typical wrestling fan, I think a lot of them would mirror some of what I mean about underutilizing some int'l talent and over-using some others.
With the experience factor you mentioned, I think it KIND OF gets lost in the shuffle when WWE Management is the decider of exposure. I mean, one year ago Henry was like 40, and he got booked to lose two straight matches to Cody Rhodes, who was like 25, despite more experience by far (as an example). I mean, Henry was in the company for 15 years, and I don't even think he even won a Intercontinental or even U.S. title in those years. I think it SHOULD count, but with the WWE being so judgemental in talent, it kind of doesn't.
With the WWE being such a cut-throat, survival of the fittest business, some of these guys like McIntyre may not be around before they can get enough experience in the company, which can kind of trail back to my point in that some of the decisions the company makes are head-scratching.
In regards to the paycheck and touring, technically that may make his name more known, you're right, but it's a little less meaningful if he's booked to lose four out of every five matches. I know I wouldn't feel wanted and a sense of entitlement if I was being used like that. If you come to the U.S. to wrestle, you don't want to settle for mediocre. That is my POV, of course.
You're right in that we may have to give guys like Tatsu time, but he is 34 or 35, and I personally wouldn't feel very good if even though I was making money, I virtually was overlooked time and time again. It's kind of like what McIntyre is doing right now: He's making money, but is continuously losing.
Yeah, I had to double-check to see if I had missed something about Hassan being foreign. It happens to everyone, though, myself included. It's hard to keep track of at times. Like Hunico's bodyguard is really Samoan, but they say he's Hispanic.
ReplyDeleteI'm playing devil's advocate to a degree in arguing what they might view or be able to use in a talent. Looking at the sort of big guys like Titus have been used even when the connection with the fans wasn't as strong as they'd have liked (Big Daddy V, Snitsky, Heidenreich, Manu, Luther Reigns) vs. how many strong wrestlers like Young have stayed mostly stuck in the midcard because WWE didn't know what to do with them (Haas, Benjamin, Regal as a serious character) for instance.
Sometimes the experience factor works the other way: they'll stay employed a long time, but mainly be used to help others along in their careers. Natalya (currently), Chavo Guerrero, sometimes Regal, Goldust, Lawler... I'm more than ok with veterans being used to elevate the younger stars if there's something of worth in them. Sometimes WWE agrees and sometimes we get HHH/Nash as the biggest thing on the card or Foley headlining Raw. And they can always change their minds over time as the situation changes like they did with Henry.
I agree about McIntyre. There have been a noticeable number of talented performers cut because WWE lost interest or whatever, and others kept for longer than they should have because WWE thought they'd eventually pan out.
I think Tatsu just being on the roster means a good deal more than never making it at all given how many Japanese wrestlers we'll never see in the company. Most people aren't going to be high up on the card over their careers, but they can at least make the most of it.
Hopefully things turn around for McIntyre. Tatsu MIGHT make it to US/IC Title level. Anything beyond that is premature speculation I think. WWE's very unpredictable. I might have said the same thing about R-Truth a few years back.