Read on for my thoughts on last night's Raw.
Here's where a record screech should go. HHH is the COO, one of the most powerful people in the company. How the heck can Stephanie force him to not wrestle? Vince shouldn't have that power either, since the Board of Directors specifically pulled him out of power and put HHH in his place. If I'm missing something here, please correct me, but on the surface it seems like they screwed up the continuity. At any rate, Vince was right about the "blood sport" mentality of some fans. If you want proof of fans rewarding hardcore bumps and "spots" over storytelling, look at Sunday's TNA PPV. I also wish that they would have put over Axel a little more instead of saying he's beneath HHH, as if he's just some other superstar we shouldn't care about.
Nice opening 6-man tag to really heat things up at the beginning of the show. The future looks bright with the likes of Bryan and The Shield getting attention.
They're doing a good job of setting up (presumably) a Bryan heel turn. I like that they're not rushing it. I know that they teased a split before and changed their minds and are back to possibly splitting up. I'm willing to ignore that to some degree if they "get it right" this time.
Who else expects Super-Mega-Badass Triple H to overcome the odds and squash Axel tonight?
Oh, God. Here come the complaints. Yes, the Usos beat PTP again. They wrestle all the time and the Usos almost always win. It's just a match they throw out there to give the fans a babyface win in a nice little "pocorn" match. It's not part of a greater story or some conspiracy to bury PTP or anything. I know it's the same old song and dance and that PTP are talented. Did I cover everything? I think it would be more beneficial to tell WWE, Darren, and Titus that you think it's an injustice that they lose all the time than me.
Del Rio vs. Langston was pretty good. Keep an eye on Langston. Same disclaimers as always: yes, he's another big guy. Maybe he won't ever be a World or WWE Champion. Etc.. All that's ok with me. He's doing well for now and shows potential to do even more in the future.
Sheamus vs. Rhodes was good. I wish Rhodes would have looked like more like a threat, but I definitely don't think the loss hurt him to a point where he can't be fairly easily redeemed. I've been a big fan of Rhodes since the Dashing days, so I know he's quite talented and hard-working. I just don't know if it's his time just yet. I don't think I'd mind if he won MITB. It wouldn't shock me if he was "ready" for the WWE/World Title level by next year's MITB PPV.
Kind of a babyface-heavy night. Rhodes Scholars getting the better of him somehow (even after Rhodes lost) would have added heat to Sheamus vs. Sandow (if that's where they're headed for Payback). If Sheamus has no problems with either of them, why should we pay to see Sheamus beat Sandow?
Wow. I'm pleasantly surprised that they didn't have HHH take out Axel tonight. At least not yet. HHH vs. Axel (and Heyman?) at Payback should be the goal here I think. I hope they don't water down that match too much in the weeks to come by having them face off a lot.
Jesus, WWE. You can make up anything you want for why Kofi's out. Why not say that Ryback CAUSED the injury and that's why he'll miss 4-8 weeks? Get heat on the heel and sympathy for the babyface. It's much more evil if he caused the injury.
I liked the Ryback/Bryan segment IF Bryan gets to show Ryback that he's no pushover.
They're really running through big matches for Axel, though so far those matches have been brief skirmishes that didn't give away a bunch of action. Where do you go after wrestling HHH and Cena? There are only so many opponents at that level.
Fandango goes from beating Jericho to looking like a chump against Khali. And WWE wonders why they can't make any new stars that people take seriously. I can't believe I'm regularly praising TNA and shaking my head at WWE. I would have never expected that back in the Russo days.
Miz vs. Barrett was fine for continuing the story for the IC Title. I hope Miz, Barrett, and Fandango get to shine at Payback.
Other than the silly ending, I really liked the Jericho/Heyman segment. Both men regularly are part of the best parts of the show. I think that they did a pretty good job setting up the Payback match.
Not a bad 6-Diva tag. It just feels like they're kind of spinning their tires in the Kaitlyn/AJ feud.
Another good Hell No segment. Bryan vs. Kane could be pretty good if they do it right.
I didn't like that Wyatt promo as much as the first one, but all in all this is one of the best new gimmicks WWE's done in years, so I'm not going to complain.
Dear Mother of God. That was pretty intense. Bryan gets a lot of props for taking that kind of abuse. I do think it was kind of over-the-top, but overall that was a really good segment. Ryback and Bryan both have futures (As always, this doesn't mean I think that Ryback is going to be a multiple-time Champion headlining PPVs for years to come. It just means that I think that they've got something with him and that he's talented. And talented doesn't mean that I think he can do amazing 5-star matches or anything. I feel like I have to justify a lot of my statements here.)
Nice save by Cena. Where was he to protect Kofi?
I can't be the only who found it funny that they used an iPad as a weapon. They continue to make it look like Axel's not really in the league of guys like HHH or Cena and barely scraping by. I don't think he should be dominating them or anything, but he could look better if they want him to be as big of a deal as Punk or Lesnar.
The end of the show was good to continue Cena vs. Ryback. I'd be completely fine with Ryback winning the title at this pace, since they'd be getting behind someone new with momentum.
More wrestling coming up.
D'ya miss me? Sorry I've been gone for so long, right, to business.
ReplyDeleteIn terms of business power, yes, no one could have stopped HHH but like Steph said "I'm asking as a wife and mother" it was a personal.
It's true, which PPV would that be?
See your point with Steph putting Axel down but Axel is a new guy compared to the multi-time WWE Champ HHH, also the fact that HHH desperately wants to fight him, boosts his importance. If Axel was unimportant to HHH, he wouldn't be spoilin' for a fight.
Loved the match, I can't get enough of Ambrose's Headlock Driver!
They're doing it well, we had the comedy of Dr. Shelby and Harry met Sally reference, they always dominated as a team and now that they're best friends and feuding the Shield, the reasons for splitting have to be stronger than the reasons for staying together.
At the time, I didn't expect HHH to leave but I didn't think they'd wrestle either, perhaps a brawl to close the night.
No problem with the Uso's getting a win over the PTP's, in fact with their new face paint perhaps they're even getting a push?
Big E. gets better every week.
Hmm no complaints here, as always I would just love some storyline, Cody is a fantastic actor, he'd rock any story they gave him. Oh yes, here's hoping he'll win Money in the Bank.
Axel has just emerged. he won't get his comeuppance for a while, in fact unlike Brock and Punk he hadn't done anything despicable yet, he's just been winning matches, until he does something really low, he won't get a beat down.
Hmm, it was a simple thing they missed there.
Good segment for both men,
Hmm he's really shot for the sky. Unfortunately I can't see a face to rival him, they're either all "busy" with someone else or injured...
Khali's no tech genius but he is a massive guy, Fandango's fumbling against him is sure to please the younger fans, besides he still got away, he didn't lose to Khali but if he can get a win over him before Payback , then no problem at all.
This is going to be an interesting match as it's already an interesting angle.
Jericho and Heyman are always gonna deliver, Jericho is taking this as seriously as heck as he should, the role-reversal very much stands out "You need to take me seriously because this is a *whole* different level"
Yes a good job, and with Kaitlyn's secret admirer revealed on Monday (Ziggler?) things can only get more interesting.
Very impressive match, the crowd were also eating it up I certainly was when Bryan sealed in the LeBell/Yes/No Lock!
I don't think you have to justify that deeply, you said they both have
futures, that's good, every wrestler in the business should have a future, many anti-Cena fans don't ant to see him fired, they just want him doing something different.
Cena's Raw-exclusive. Even if he wanted to save Kofi he would have been in a different location.
Heheh, iPad. You're right, I'm assuming they're saving his best (and a pinfall victory over someone big) for PPV.
He certainly has the fire, if they have another rival for Cena, then perhaps, as for Ryback, he has his share of enemies.
I haven't had a comment here for a while. I was wondering where everyone went. I think I ticked the other guy off. A lot of the times where I explain myself are to counter some of the things we seemingly always argue about.
ReplyDeleteThat makes sense. See, sometimes I miss things like that.
TNA's recent PPV had a LOT of "big bumps" and spots, almost as if that was the whole point of the show. I always think of Al Snow's comment about fireworks: there's a reason you only have them so often. If you just keep throwing out big gimmick matches and dangerous bumps, they're no longer special.
I think he's important in the way that HHH wants to fight him, but he doesn't look all that credible.
I don't necessarily think Axel should look like he should beat HHH clean, but it would behoove them to make him look like a threat. HHH only wrestles a handful of times a year. Axel's a full-time guy. When HHH goes back behind-the-scenes, if Axel just looks like some shmo while HHH looks like he could beat anyone, why would we want to watch Axel? And when HHH isn't around, most others look like they're not as important as he is. That's NOT what you want when you're trying to sell all those live events and PPVs and such that don't have HHH on them but do have guys like Axel.
He apparently had a different finisher in FCW. Maybe they felt that he couldn't do it on bigger performers.
I'm fine with them splitting. In fact, I'm for it. The other commenter was (justifiably) upset that they went back-and-forth in past months over whether or not they'd split. Maybe it works out better that they might split now instead of then.
I'm curious as to what they'll do at Payback. They have a big opportunity to "make" Axel if he does something monumental against HHH.
The other commenter got pretty upset a lot of times when the Usos beat PTP because he felt that the Usos are fairly generic and it seems like the babyfaces get the win a lot more than the heels do. I had the statistics earlier of the all-time W/L of Usos vs. PTP. They've faced off quite a bit, and I believe that the Usos generally do win. I like PTP (in some ways more than the Usos) and do think that they shouldn't be used as fodder so much, but I see why WWE's doing what they're doing. I have the theory that they just put the Usos vs. PTP on when they need to fill some time with a match they know will keep the crowd's attention with 4 guys who work together well, and to give the crowd a babyface moment with the Usos winning.
I'm pleasantly surprised with Big E. Before he got called up, I basically heard that he was just "ok" and just another big guy. It seems like parts of the fanbase are very critical of big guys and overly fond of some of the quicker, smaller guys. At least compared to my tastes.
I miss some of Rhodes' earlier gimmicks. He's really not doing much now.
I REALLY hope they don't throw Axel under a bus. It is by no means easy to "make" a superstar, even with the Paul Heyman touch. I wouldn't be shocked if HHH thought highly of Axel. It just seems like no matter what, HHH has to look like a top-tier guy even when he barely wrestles. I'm a huge HHH fan and all, but they really need to pass the torch.
Like I said, they need to be careful with the newer talents so they don't fall down that path of "why aren't the fans taking them seriously?".
Jericho and Heyman are two of my favorite performers of all-time. They know wrestling inside and out.
Of course, Kaitlyn and Ziggler have history. It wouldn't shock me if they introduce a new character with the Kaitlyn angle.
I hope Bryan just keeps getting better and becomes one of the stars of this generation.
ReplyDeleteThat was another reference to the other commenter. It seemed like every time I said something about someone having potential, I was attacked because they didn't look like "sustainable main eventers" or whatever. I can't think of a single wrestler who looked like a sustainable main eventer to me until they actually got a chance to be featured prominently in the main event scene. I think there's too much pressure from some people for someone to be a huge star right out of the gate. It can take a long time before someone looks like they can hang in the main event scene.
He's appeared on Smackdown before. I don't think there's anything actually preventing him from going there in kayfabe like him having a Raw-exclusive contract or anything. In fact, I seem to remember HHH opening the doors for anyone to appear on any show. But yeah, they rarely put him on Smackdown so they don't wear him out or water him down too much. I just don't think they've said anything about why he's generally on Raw on the air.
I'll be very pleased if Axel pins HHH at Payback. Is he as talented as HHH? Has he "earned" it? Maybe not. But sometimes you have to roll the dice. They can do it as to where it helps Axel but doesn't hurt HHH. And honestly, HHH has won so many big matches and titles that I don't think you can hurt his reputation too much.
I've seen flashes of pretty good things from Axel. I think he "wants it" and works hard, but is still something of a work in progress. But I could say that about pretty much every single wrestler who got their first shot at the main event scene.
Been quite busy with exams and essay deadlines, finally cooling down though, thankfully the weather is dong the opposite!
ReplyDeleteI see, that's a shame, hopefully he'll come to see that this a place to debate and discuss in detail instead of jumping to conclusions.
Hmm, I also liked it when Steph called him "Paul", I just find things like that neat.
Gotcha, no doubt my funny brother would agree, he doesn't like the Hell in a Cell PPV because he feels the match should only be used to conclude the bitterest of feuds.
That's right, it's odd that Triple H was Axel's first match, I love it when a new guy comes in, goes after someone big but someone they can have a back-and-forth feud with while defeating others to show off their skills, just look at Del Rio's 2010.
However about Triple H looking more important than everyone, he's...a firework. We already know he's one of the best ever but the fact that he's part-time now shows that he won't be holding any more titles, won't be main eventing as many PPV's or even closing shows as much as full timers. What is the measure of importance?
Oh yes, the Midnight Special - imagine trying to hit that on Kane!?
Hmm, it's been said many times, Team Hell No is fabulous but they're even better apart. It makes more sense for them to split around now, heck they may even have a match to make their relationship full circle.
I'm very sure Axel will make a name for himself at Payback, if not then Money in the Bank or inbetween.
Fair dues, I agree with both of you - it would be nice to see the PTP's stack up more wins even if it'snot against the Usos but yes, they do work well together, all four men do their jobs well.
Ah there you go, that's only what you heard from others, we've both heard that Cena, Miz, Naomi etc. "can't wrestle" but we both know that's not true, we've seen them. Mark Henry is a big guy, if Big E was "just another Mark Henry" then he'd be one of the business' top heels. It's true out of my Fave 5 full timers, Del Rio is the heaviest, but if you enjoy a wrestler, then you enjoy them (almost) regardless of their size.
Absolutely, we talked about Patrick Bateman, a fun way of describing a gimmick is a "role", I remember once you called 3MB "extras".
It's true but some flops are not their fault, look at Alber...Tensai.
Aha the shock comes from *who* the new person is, guess we'll find out tomorrow!
Amen!
Couldn't agree more, it's hard to see if someone can do something - until they actually do it! Who knew Punk/Cena would be such a great match - many times over! Or Orton/Christian? (Damn, 2011 was a great wrestling year)
And wrestlers improve anyway, abilities are certainly not static.
Oh yeah, you're right, storyline-wise there's no reason and it would have been good to see, an extra "firework" on SmackDown.
Absolutely, even if he has to cheat to win - in fact when it comes to heels, I *encourage* skulduggery! Absolutely right, Triple H is and has been a certain Hall of Famer for many years now, I'm also a huge fan of his, he'honestly one of the best ever and he's still great but past his prime. Statistic: Triple H has wrestled more matches on raw than anyone else in history.
Exactly, all we need is a defining moment.
Oh yeah, school can be hectic. I'm not looking forward to French or Human Biology next semester. Neither are remotely tied to my major.
ReplyDeleteIt's frustrating because it feels like we go over the same points every time and nothing new gets added to the conversation.
I HATE when they use performers' real names when they're generally referred to by their on-screen names. It strikes me as really ridiculous. You don't see it in movies or TV shows or anything. To me it says that the other storylines are just people acting since they don't refer to each other by their off-screen names. For instance, Bryan must not be too upset with Kane if he's not calling him "Glenn". Honestly, that could be the thing I like the least about wrestling.
I've seen matches that were pretty much just excuses to show off flashy moves and sequences or how "hardcore" someone was with very little in the way of story. X-Division guys are very talented for the things they can pull off, but it's more acrobatics than wrestling.
I get that they wanted Axel to look big right out of the gate. I hope they do something good with him at Payback. They just have to be careful with him. They don't want him to end up like Swagger, Ziggler, Orton or Khali after their first World Title reigns.
There's a pretty popular story that HHH is really insecure and "has" to look better than most everyone. Former writer Seth Mates talks about it on Twitter a lot.
I've been pleasantly surprised by PTP. They've really grown.
The "you can't wrestle" chant is ridiculous most of the time. If it's Khali or something maybe I could understand, but Cena? Ridiculous. He just uses more ring psychology and makes his moves mean more.
I still crack up at Patrick Bateman. That was a crazy movie. I loved his facial expressions.
And, yes, I see WWE a lot like other TV shows/movies. I think Vince does, too, as well as influential NBC Universal executive Bonne Hammer.
I've heard the argument that a really good talent can make virtually any character work (Goldust comes to mind). Not as easy as it sounds, though.
Punk and Cena got enough time and leeway to tell better stories. Vince doesn't give that freedom to everyone.
To me, it is pretty simple: heels generally cheat and such while faces are generally upstanding characters. There should be some gray area but not so much as to where anyone can do anything.
Thought of this after I hit submit: Al Snow had this great metaphor about seeing a car being vandalized in the parking lot. If it's not your car, you won't care as much. But if it is your car, and your family's inside and it's on fire, then you're going to want to do anything to get that vandal to stop and get revenge on them. The car is the babyface and the vandal is the heel. Kind of an out there metaphor, but I think it made sense. The babyface is generally someone you have "sympy" for and/or can relate to, and you want the heel to get what's coming to him. A lot of times, people try to be "cool heels" (Ziggler comes to mind) - bad guys who get fan approval. Ziggler's really, really good at his role but in some ways I don't want to hate him like I did Daniel Bryan for putting AJ in harm's way, etc..
ReplyDeleteToo right, Mass Communications and French, they could find a relationship but hmm Biology is completely out there. Rest assured, you've got all summer to prepare.
ReplyDeleteHmm, I see it's detriment to suspending of disbelief but I...just find it cool, I've never thought so deeply into it.
There you go. A few SmackDown's ago, four separate matches ended in pinfall, submission, DQ and count-out. Four different stories in outcome alone. I've probably seen this countless times but I noticed it this time, it showed me the beauty of the singles match.
True, he did wrestle HHH immediately after all, it's on the PPV. Oooh hopefully not, it's like they sprinted to the title and ran out of energy by the time they lost got it, instead of an endurance run.
I'll look into that, gotta know more before I make an opinion.
Indeed, in fact I could easily see them playing babyfaces.
No doubt, the guy can tell the best in-ring stories and everyone is *so* invested in his character, positivity or negatively.
I've yet to see the movie in full but I did look into his biography, like you said certainly not date-friendly *shivers*
Hammer? *researches* I see a "male soap opera" I'm surprised Vince let her in but if she's the reason for the Punk/Bryan/AJ angle then I want to shake the woman's hand!
Absolutely, that's why I couldn't understand why people were upset with Fandango early on, he hadn't even wrestled yet, we'd only seen glimpses of his promo work.
Yes, you'd have to really live the character.
Hmm, true that. Even so, a little bit of this and that, each week helps build character, like what Sheamus and Sandow are locked in.
It's true. A heel is a bad guy, a jerk, a douche (slang these days)yes, Ziggler's is fantastic but a mean streak is what he lacks. My most detested heel was Edge during his feud with the Undertaker, my goodness I hated the man! He would attack Taker three-on-one, hit him with cameras, have the Hell's Gate banned, he was a first-class villain.
I GUESS you can argue that HHH and Stephanie are so close that it warranted her calling him "Paul". It just sits wrong with me since his character's name is Hunter. I don't recall HBK ever calling him Paul and they're best friends. It strikes me as a little cheap as far as going for the "real" factor.
ReplyDeleteThe more "new age" fans want to see a bunch of "clean" pinfall/submission endings, where the story is about who is the better athlete, etc.. It's not my cup of tea. I like that here and there, but for the whole show? No. There was a question in the latest news post about how everyone should basically just try to top each other: if one match has a bunch of crazy bumps, you better have even CRAZIER bumps. How near-sighted and dangerous!
I believe that they're pushing for longer Title reigns now (at least at the top). Sounds like something HHH would be behind.
Oh yeah. It's said that he kept a number of people from being World Champion during his run on Raw (Booker, RVD, Kane) and how he manipulates things to make his character more important. I can't recall Mates saying this part specifically, but the old story is that he would have scripts re-written if he wasn't "going over" (winning).
As best as I can tell, PTP are pretty stand-up guys outside of the ring. I think the Miami Herald had a story on them recently. Titus has done a lot of charity stuff and worked with Ricky Steamboat a bunch. I remember being at a Smackdown taping where Darren shook some fans' hands who had brought signs for him (even as a heel). This was off-camera, though (presumably because he was a heel and this would be out-of-character).
Cena's experience really shows. He's worked with a lot of top names who have a lot of experience of their own. That's helped him a lot.
Even as violent and explicit as the movie is, it doesn't touch the book. It's supposed to be a satire.
She's one of the few people who will stand up to Vince. I remember something about her dictating that WWE's shows would be episodic like any other TV show (as opposed to something like, say, Superstars, where it's just matches and video packages with no narrative).
People like to think that they know things before all the facts are known.
At least Sheamus and Sandow have a story. Some people just get thrown out there.
It's amazing how wrestling has changed: people used to throw things and try to jump the rails when a heel was effective. Now, they cheer and buy their merchandise. Ugh.
HBK has always called him Hunter, the only other times he was called Paul (that I know of) were by Vince after his Million Dollar Mania accident and by CM Punk during his "revolution", why cheap?
ReplyDeleteIn terms of a feud-ender of course, nobody wants to see a major PPV end on a countout. What, which post was this? I can understand trying to top the previous match, who wouldn't want to make their mark? But by no means does that mean it has to be *crazier*.
If CM Punk's reign is anything to go by then, absolutely.
One could say it's easy to point the finger of blame to someone who "married their way into power". Kane has always been loyal with WWE, although Booker went to TNA, I've never heard any dirt from him.
Yes, I've certainly heard of Titus' charitable work but with Ricky Steamboat, dang. That's so nice, good of him,
He's been very lucky, getting to work with, the best, that's what I hope for every wrestler.
*Shivers* Hahaha okay!
I like that. Goodness, that would be extremely odd, it's not how a wrestling show works.
It's unfortunate.
Exactly.
Heheheh, that *is* odd. Then again fans are free people, buying merch is quite fine in my eyes but yes, boos are cheers for a heel.
I see it as cheap because it's very easy to just use his real name to show that it's "real". HBK didn't have to refer to Hogan as "Terry" to get over his real frustrations with him in their feud.
ReplyDeleteI don't know which post off the top of my head. It all runs together! But I don't think that every match needs to try to top the previous match. It's like a roller coaster: you need some downtime to reset your adrenaline. This is why WWE will put something like a Divas match in-between two really serious matches instead of just going non-stop with grudges.
I think they kept Punk as Champion so long to go to Punk vs. Rock. They can do long-term stories with some guys (Rock, HHH, Taker, Brock, etc.). I guess those guys have enough clout with Vince to get that to work.
This was back when HHH was World Champion, before Booker went to TNA, so that couldn't have been the excuse. I don't know why they decided to have him be the top guy so much.
Yeah, a lot of controversy came out about that book.
It used to be that TV was basically just a commercial for the live events and PPVs and such. They had matches and stories, but it wasn't anything like it is today.
Of course it's great that they buy merch for the heels (even if that's weird from an old-school perspective). I don't think WWE's complaining about the money that heel fans bring in.
Hmm, understood.
ReplyDeleteHmm fair enough. I understand, in a PPV the World Title and WWE Title matches are never back to back, I do enjoy the "roller coaster method".
That's true, the latter part of Punk's Title reign did have Rock looming over it, it's why he went heel. But if they're up for longer Title reigns to build more stars, I'm very happy.
Triple H may have connections with higher-ups (and be one himself) but he was Word Champion-worthy, his in-ring skill but mostly his mic work. But maybe the connections did play a significant role
No doubt.
Indeed, there wouldn't be half as many matches for any title on TV and if we go way back, there was only a Raw each week.
True and of course that's important. The cheering of heels can work in rare occasions like it did on Payback though.It's true what my funny brother says, the fans can make or break you.
Of course, it's not JUST long title reigns that matter. In TNA, ODB and Eric Young were Knockout Tag Team Champions for 400+ days and it barely meant anything because they barely defended them. They FINALLY stripped them of the titles recently. It was embarrassing. It'd be like if Hornswoggle and Natalya were Divas' Tag Team Champions for 400+ days and barely appeared. Easily one of the worst parts of TNA the last few years.
ReplyDeleteYou can't get much more connected than HHH was. Some say that he and his buddies (the Kliq) "ran" the WWF at the time and could do whatever they wanted. WWF in '97 wasn't nearly as financially secure as it is now with all of its merchandise and international TV deals and whatever. Talents could bend Vince over a barrel (like Punk did in 2011, but as a group).
WWE goes way back before Raw was a thing! Heck, it didn't even used to be its own company, much less a national company.